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jmdriskell

KSEA Center Runway Not Available

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I recently installed Taxi2Gate KSEA in FSX.  The visuals are great but when I start to setup a free flight from KSEA and chose a runway, only the old left or right runways are available which seems to indicate that FSX is reading an old afcad.  The product appears to be activated and is shown in the add-on scenery list at the top.  I did notice that when I installed the product, it seemed to self-activate but I have also attempted to reactivate it but the system said it was installed.  Should I remove any other references to ksea?  I have aig-ksea installed.  Thanks in advance to any help.

 

Jim Driskell

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I did but it didn't help so I uninstalled T2G KSEA and everything worked.  I think the problem stems from a conflict between ORBX NW and T2G KSEA.  Someone on another forum drew my attention for the updates available for T2G KSEA and I have yet to apply them.  Hope this solves the problem.  Thanks.

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So I reinstalled T2G-KSEA and applied the fixes.  I'm still missing the KSEA center runway.  Can anyone please help because as it now stands, T2G-KSEA is unusable.  Does it make a difference where T2G-KSEA is in the scenery stack.  I currently install it after ORBX NW. 

Thanks,

Jim Driskell

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Thanks for the quick reply.  Yes, after I start Free Flight and select an aircraft.  When I select KSEA as the current location, I'm only offered 16L or 16R.  The same problem with 34L and 34R.  16C and 34C or not offered as choices.  I'm running FSX with Acceleration on Win 8.1.  I have the following add-ons (in ascending order) UT suite, Approaching Innsbruck X, some miscellaneous scenery in Add On Scenery, FTX-NA suite, Flightbeam KIAD, KDEN, KSFO HD.  T2G was always installed above the other add-ons.

Thanks for your help,

Jim Driskell

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Thanks.  I got the latest version of T2G from SimMarket and ran the install.  Previous versions automatically installed KSEA and KSEA-TERRAIN  in the Scenery Library but new version didn't seem to do this.  I found the files under a SimMarket FSX subdirectory.  I copied these files to Addon Scenery.  I disabled KSEA**.bgl in FTX NM and moved all the FTX files up in sequence just below the T2G entries in the library.  I then added KSEA and KSEA-TERRAIN to the library and and allowed FSX to rebuild the indexes.

No joy!  FSX freee flight still doesn't offer the KSEA center runway.  It's like all my addons causes the original KSEA bgl (located at FSX\scenery\0101\scenery\SAPX15150.bgl) to take precedence.  It seems that this is an AFCAD problem.  The KSEA**.bgl file in T2G is correct but it's not the one that is presented when I select a runway from the location tab on free flight in FSX.

Any ideas?

Jim Driskell

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Hi Jim,

I also noticed the installation path is a little bit different this time around - the KSEA-T2G folder that was installed last time was in FSX\Addon Scenery\  - that one had bgl's and AES bgl's for AES users but now these are in the SimMarket\KSEA-T2G-FSX\ folder.  I removed the KSEA-T2G folder from FSX\Addon Scenery\ because I worried about a memory leak. AES is still working for me.  Not everyone uses AES, so perhaps a "fix" might lie in that area for those willing to give it a shot?? Not my area of expertise. 

I assume you're using the very latest installer (I was notified of the update early this morning Western Australia Time by SimMarket). I didn't check this situation until I saw these posts as I contacted Cesar about the blank scenery library entries in FSX (Posted about an hour ago). 

I am also missing 16C/34C  as starting points, though the runways themselves are physically there.  

Wish I had known about this one so I could have killed 2 birds with one stone when emailing Cesar. If it's for traffic flow, I'm not terribly fussed about it. But if it affects my AI (I use UT2) , then I might go ahead and ask him.

The only idea I have for this one is trying to look at KSEA through ADE editor if you have the SDK. Seeing this is a brand new PC, I decided to not install the FSX SDK this time around. 

Have you notified T2G support? I think I will do that after I leave this room. Cesar has replied promptly - even after hours using his mobile phone, so I hate to pester him...

 

Here's screenshots of what I am getting...

Rgds,

Bill Alexander

 

 

1.30.2016 22-51-25.jpeg

1.31.2016 0-15-13.jpeg

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Hi Bill,

Someone else pointed out the the KSEA afcad offered by T2G-KSEA did NOT have start points on the middle runway. 

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2016/01/30/SEA-starts.jpg

I don't know if the reason T2G isn't offering this option because the actual center runway has been undergoing resurfacing but that runway exists and the FAA currently offers ILS charts for the center runway and it clearly shows on the current airport diagram.  Why would T2G offer a substandard afcad for KSEA?  ORBX PNW's afcad does list the center runway.  I think I'll modify T2G's afcad and see how it works.  BTW I noticed the same problems with T2G's latest release of their KSEA installer.  I hope these problems are fixed soon.

 

Jim Driskell

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Hi again Jim, 

Yes, the center runways  currently have  ILS procedures in the real world.

I have sent a link from this thread to T2G (Cesar). I'm sure he'll be visiting it soon. 

I did receive an email from them about the blank entries, saying that the installers are being tended to. 

No sense leaving the runway issues out of the equation, so here's hoping that they get to it as well. 

Cheers, Bill Alexander 

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Thanks, Bill.

I'll wait until the next version of the installer comes out and then give it another try.  I previously installed ORBX PNW so some of my problems may be due to conflicts between ORBX PNW and T2G-KSEA.  I followed this http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/105160-orbx-pnw-and-taxi2gate-ksea-airport-compatibility-guide/  to tweak the two systems but I did this before the new installer came out.  Will try again.

Jim

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No problems Jim,

Seeing as I've been an ORBX forum member for about a year now, it was easy to see that PNW incompatibility issue and fix. Sure looks like you had your work cut out for you there. I hope the next time around, things will go smoother for you! 

Here's hoping T2G gets out either a patch or a full installer. Going from past experience, it would probably be better all around for a complete installer.

Bill 

 

*EDIT* 

Jim,

Just did a search for a review of T2G KSEA and here's the link http://www.my737ng.com/software/taxi2gate/taxi2gate-ksea/  If you scroll down you get this (near the ADE diagram):

MISSING RUNWAY START POINTS

Taxi2Gate KSEA does not allow you to select the center runway 16C/34C as a starting point. I wanted this, so using the patched KSEA_AF.bgl file from above, I went back into ADE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I take it from this that this was an intentional design concept for whatever reason (most likely as posted earlier for traffic flow issues). I'd be very interested in seeing how AI ground traffic is handled when you enable this runway. Any conflicts or crazy ATC commands? 

Rgds,

Bill

Edited by phantomflyer
Additional information added

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As "Will Shakespeare" said, "All's well, as ends well," I reinstalled T2G-KSEA from the latest installer that I understand contains the previous fixes and updates.  I then applied the updated afcad.  Then I modified my ORBX PNW in accordance with ORBX's instructions.  Everything looks good now!! Yea!  I do notice some flashing when I'm in tower view sitting on the end of the runway.  Don't know what's causing this.  My video drivers are up-to-date.  Maybe someone has an idea.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the help and especially the folks at T2G.

Jim Driskell

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As "Will Shakespeare" said, "All's well, as ends well," I reinstalled T2G-KSEA from the latest installer that I understand contains the previous fixes and updates.  I then applied the updated afcad.  Then I modified my ORBX PNW in accordance with ORBX's instructions.  Everything looks good now!! Yea!  I do notice some flashing when I'm in tower view sitting on the end of the runway.  Don't know what's causing this.  My video drivers are up-to-date.  Maybe someone has an idea.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the help and especially the folks at T2G.

Jim Driskell

Just a thought Jim - if you're using an Nvidia card, are you using Nvidia Inspector?  You can go to NickN's (Flight1 expert and UTX programmer)  and have a look. I suspect that you may have a refresh rate "clash" ie- it should be 1/2 the monitors refresh rate but this is all hndled in Nvidia Inspector if you import the FSX/P3D Profile  (the profile is exactly the same in both sims, so don't let its name throw you) that Nick provides, all the settings are optimized beautifully . He even explains how to set up Inspector and import his profile. It really changed my sim experience for the better - no flashing, popping, stutters, and excellent smoothness. The nice thing about using inspector is you can uncheck  a lot of FSX boxes because Inspector does all the work. The only thing you should bear in mind when using Inspector is it needs to be re-set (easily done - just import the profile again and apply) when you update your graphic card's drivers.

Without much ado (about something - Shakespeare would probably spit on me for saying that, and would be even more irate if I implied his plays were written by Bacon ;-) ) here's the link:  http://www.simforums.com/forums/drivers-nv-inspector-fsxcfg-complete-guide_topic36586.html

 

Any questions, feel free to ask - I just built this PC using his "BIBLE" (it's another HUGE post on the same site) and I followed his rules to the letter from hardware onward.

 

 

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The latest version of this mess is:  Got rid of both ORBX and T2G KSEA.  KSEA 16C and 34C ILS/DME both work.  Installed T2G KSEA.  ILS/DME works for both 34C and 16C.  Installed ORBX FTX PNW and made the necessary modifications for T2G KSEA.  ORBX is above T2G KSEA.  ILS/DME still works for both 34C and 16C but the terrain around the runway now has bumps and holes.  The sharp runway texture seen in T2G KSEA before ORBX was installed has flattened out.

Another thing that I don't understand is the apparent lack of updating of the T2G KSEA installer.  As mentioned above, when I first installed T2G KSEA, the center runway was completely missing. I was provided with a corrected KSEA bgl with solved this problem.  I got the latest version of the T2G KSEA installer and ran it.  It was still missing the center runway, so I had to get the corrected one and add it.  Seems to me that this bgl should have been included in the latest version of the installer.  Why not?

Terrain problems make me conclude that ORBX FTX and T2G KSEA are not compatible on my machine.  I'm not sure which one I wall dump but I'm very dis-satisfied with how they work together.  Has anyone had a different experience?

 

Thanks,

 

Jim Driskell

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Hey Jim,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having such difficulties with this add-on. I am a UTX/GEX user and don't use any FTX or ORBX installed. I considered it, but I found many airport add-ons just weren't compatible or had terrain problems either on the runways or within the airport boundaries. I got into the FTX forums right before I decided to purchase it - at this juncture, I am not considering it. If/when communication between them and airport scenery developers becomes standard protocol and iron out any issues before a release is made, then I will consider it. 

I think it's a real shame that developers  as prominent as T2G (and many others) are simply not communicating with each-other. A very good example of this are add-ons that use this "SODE" (SimObjectDisplayEngine - made by "12bPilot") program have caused nightmares for many simmers world-wide. Now, they (Drzeweiki Design and Digital Design depend upon SODE for objects, lighting and for other object placement), are finally getting the message, but only after a lot of complaining or seeking support in huge numbers. The work that Oliver Pabst over at Aerosoft has had to do to clear up issues with their products (mostly AES services) and SODE (even some GSX issues) is staggering! He seems to have opened up channels in a big way with a very promising result. 12bPilot have completely re-written their SODE program which was causing exe.xml and dll.xml overwrites, thus crashing FSX/P3D and even destroying other perfectly fine airports. Now that SODE is no longer part of a scenery package (one still must download it so the features that need it work), the chance of a newer version (the latest is 1.32) stepping all over an older one is significantly reduced; even still, the end user must be on their toes! It happened to me only last week. Thankfully, I had the issue resolved within an hour of contacting Digital Design support (they are Russian and extremely prompt to help - I got support while Evgeny personally replied to me in the middle of his night and on a weekend (that's what I call support!). 

I don't like the idea of anyone having to scrap scenery - especially anything made by top-end designers of the caliber that T2G and ORBX/FTX have attained.

Have you personally written to T2G and/or the ORBX team to voice your concerns? If you did, what kind of response did you get? 

In conclusion, I certainly hope that you get some kind of work-around here from T2G in particular. They certainly should have tested their scenery, and then been aware of any conflicts with both FTX/ORBX or UTX/GEX and made a statement saying so in their product description. The biggest problem with electronically downloaded scenery is the "no refunds" policy. It isn't fair on and end user when a developer fails to test for, and then fails to disclose issues. This isn't the re-seller's responsibility -  this responsibility should sit squarely with the developer(s).

Let us know how you get on with this - remember that the squeaky wheel gets the grease it needs! 

Best regards,

Bill 

 

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I have not contacted T2G or ORBX directly but I have posted the problems on both forums.  I did hear directly from T2G and that's where I got the corrected AFCAD.  Maybe my system is so screwed up so these two add-ons will never work correctly so I'm thinking it's time to start from scratch. 

I'm very familiar with various developers building junk ware for the PC world.  I've been is this business since 1965 (a few years before PCs :o) ) and have seen lots of junk.  I remember Windoz version 1.  It wouldn't run on the IBM PCs in the 1980s that we had at the time.  I've always tried to be careful about installing software on my system but I think I've shot myself in the foot with something. 

Thanks for your concern,

Jim

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Ok, the problem is solved.  Not a software problem.  See below.

I want to thank everyone for their assistance and education in helping me overcome my problems with ORBX FTX PNW and T2G KSEA.  I finally have everything working properly now.  I deleted both ORBX FTX PNW and T2G KSEA, then reinstalled them.  First I installed T2G KSEA, then I installed ORBX FTX PNW.  I moved T2G KSEA to the top and made the necessary modifications to both addons.  Then I ADDED "KSEA-MESH" containing the KSEA-MT.bgl to the scenery list.  Not doing this very important step is probably what screwed my up earlier. 

In the Marine Corps a flag is waved on a target when someone completely misses the it while firing the rifle range, .  This flag is called "Maggy's Drawers".  The miss is usually attributed to a loose nut on the butt plate.  That was me missing the last important step,  But thanks again for all the help because I finally realized what I was doing wrong.

 

Jim Driskell

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